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I've read it elsewhere that marketing folks need to be more involved than the legal team when it comes to trademark and related protection. Lawyers have their job to do, but in doing so, they often piss off customers and prospects.

Didn't the Grateful Dead encourage concert goers to record and photograph the band?

HHMMMMM, I wonder how much that "stealing" hurt their album and memorabilia sales? Not much I bet, and the Grateful Dead, from my perception, has one of the best cult-like, dedicated following of any of the great rock 'n' roll bands.

Ford has -- had -- a chance to do the same with the Mustang club and blew it.
Mike

Excellent post Todd. It's articles like this that are going to get marketers and lawyers to rethink how they approach their community.

If you're not encouraging their enthusiasm then you're stifling it.

You'd think that the RIAA would learn from this too.

They would have helped the brand and community and get punished for it. That's not common sense to me.

I could see a company being upset if something like this put the company in a bad light. In this case is free advertising and promotion of a brand that is sinking financially. At $6.02 per share, the company can scarcely afford to lose good will and free marketing.

I paid $50 just for the licensed Ford gas cap in my URL. I think I own the rights to show my "rear end" online to Ford on this one!

Wow, considering the plight of Ford and other automakers one would think they would be enlisting 'free' marketing rather than disuade it.

That's a crazy story! For example harley davidson has a huge cult all over the world! Image if they did the same as Ford did?!?!

don't need to be very smart to now the answer, right?

eh? Now this is truly baffling. I worked in motoring journalism in one form or other for a considerable period in the UK. I don't recall ever asking the permission of the manufacturer to publish pictures of their vehicles - even if they came off badly in a comparison test.
Is the law different in the states?
I'd be interested in the technical controls if anyone can clarify.
Taken to its logical extent, do the police have to seek permission each time they print out a photograph of a car breaking a speed limit or running a red light?
This just seems mad beyond (literally) belief. So I'd love more if you have it.

But on your substantive point that Ford is crazy to reject this fansumer out-pouring of love... absolutely. Can I point you at this equally crazy and legally constrained example:

http://fasterfuture.blogspot.com/2007/11/it-seems-lessons-of-mash-up-culture-are.html

My name is Whitney Drake and I work in Ford Communications.

We've been watching this discussion with interest and I'd like to clarify what is essentially a misunderstanding.

Yesterday we spoke to both Cafe Press and the Black Mustang Club and explained the situation (about the Black Mustang Club’s calendar) to everyone's satisfaction. Ford has no problem with Mustang or other car owners taking pictures of their vehicles for use in club materials like calendars. What we do have an issue with are individuals using Ford’s logo and other trademarks for products they intend to sell. Understandably, we have to take the protection of our brands and licensing very seriously.

Ford did not send the Black Mustang Club a “cease and desist” letter telling them that they could not use images of their own cars in their calendar. The decision not to allow the calendars to be printed was made by Cafe Press, because we had gotten in touch with them in the past about trademark infringements on products they sold.

The Black Mustang Club, and any other Ford enthusiast club, are free to take pictures of their own vehicles for use in calendars or other materials as long as they don't use Ford trademarks in products that will be sold.

I think it is great that the Black Mustang Club, and any other enthusiast club, would take pictures of their own vehicles for use in calendars or other materials.

I'm looking forward to purchasing a copy to hang in the garage next to my Mustang (even if mine isn't black).

Thanks for giving us the chance to have our say.

Whitney,

I'm confused. How is that you are "looking forward to purchasing a copy to hang in the garage next to my Mustang" if, as you say, "The Black Mustang Club ... are free to take pictures ... as long as they don't use Ford trademarks in products that will be sold."

Whitney,

I guess I don't understand how someone can't take a picture of "your" vehicles, put it on something and sell it. Isn't this what Car & Driver, Automobile and Road & Track do every month?

When I bought my Focus, I figured it was mine, lock,stock and barrel. I guess you guys think you're going to be like these software behemoths who try to control their product's use after the sale has been consummated.

Does every toy maker pay royalties to Ford?

Look I think Ford makes great products, but seriously, get the lawyers in check. Your stock dropped to $5.81 on 14 Jan 08. You need the help - trust us.

Rafe makes a good point, but more importantly, isn't there room for common sense in the legal-driven desire to protect your brand and handle licensing issues?

Sure, this might not be an officially licensed Ford calendar, but putting the brakes on it strikes me as heavy handed and short sighted. The potential for fostering current and creating new enthusiasts seems too great to pass up.

This is the big takeaway for me from reading this comment stream: Ford is listening. I think clarification on the photos with Ford that have a ford emblem in them is good, but not as important as Ford showed up here and participated in the ocnversation. Sounds like all of Detroit has wisened up to the importance of social media.

Whitney didn't say she was against People using Ford imagery... she said "trademarks"

"The Black Mustang Club, and any other Ford enthusiast club, are free to take pictures of their own vehicles for use in calendars or other materials as long as they don't use Ford trademarks in products that will be sold."

It seems fair to me that Ford should protect their trademarks doesn't it?

Those trade marks have little TMs next to them. They are typically logos, not photos.

There is no trademark infraction from using photos, that is why there never was a problem here...

I agree with Geoff. The fact that big companies are starting listen to/join in conversations is promising. Hopefully it'll help them to be proactive and head off situations like this one before it gets started. I guess that falls under the "best defense is a good offense" category. I do also understand the Ford has to protect trademark, etc. and I think this case is a strong reminder of the fact that lawyers usually win the day.

Rafe: It sounds as if the car club members can create and sell a calendar using photos of their cars, but they can't put (for example) a graphic of the Ford logo on it. That would imply that the calendar is a Ford product. Maybe?

What I'm wondering is, can they put a closeup photo of a car's Ford logo on the calendar? Does the owner of the car own that instance of the logo?

It's important to remember one key point about trademark law - while it gives the trademark owner the right to protect the name; it’s really aimed at protecting the consumer. Helping protecting the consumer from being deliberately or unknowingly misled into purchasing another offering that used similar imagery, name, design or logo.

Instead of trying to control and curtail the amazing passion of Mustang owners and fans of the cult muscle car – Ford should not only allow their Fans to go wild, with Black Mustang Club calendars and such, but fully embrace and actively support these spirited endeavors. How much would Ford marketing pay to see a Ford sponsored 2008 Mustang calendar hang in every Gearhead’s garage – or every young kids bedroom wall next to a poster of Megan Fox or Radiohead??? I bet Millions.

And here they are trotting upon the passions of the very customer base they are hoping to sell more Mustangs. If I were Ford, I’d hope the iconic Ford Logo was readily displayed in the Black Mustang calendar. I’d even open up the old vault of historic photos from the Ford marketing archives to showcase how the original Mach I, GT Coupe, Fastback and Shelby’s looked like as they rolled off the line – all those years ago. Wouldn’t Ford Motor Company rather the classic Mustang be thought of as ‘The Ford Mustang'- and not just a great car from an era gone by.

Oh and BTW – Wasn’t the Mustang name originally inspired by the spirited, wild and free Mustang stallions that openly roamed the west. Perhaps it’s something Ford should remember as well.

~Bob C.

it is encouraging to see Whitney take part in this discussion, I do think it is important to clarify exactly what the club can and cannot do however. As other people have written, is it possible to take a picture of a ford vehicle with the logo appearing in the picture, and sell that product?

So: cars yes, logos no. What about the logo on the car? What percentage of the image can be logo before the brand police get called in? What is fair use for products and logos?

FYI @squeezy "For example harley davidson has a huge cult all over the world! Imagine if they did the same as Ford did?!?!"

Ummm... Harley Davidson does do this. They even trademarked the SOUND of their motorcycles, the appearance of the motor, etc. Do a few searches on google, you'll find plenty of trouble.