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	<title>Comments on: The Scandal That Will Knock Marketing On Its A$$</title>
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	<link>http://www.pr-squared.com/index.php/2007/11/the_scandal_that_will_knock_ma</link>
	<description>Social Media and Public Relations Consulting � PR Squared</description>
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		<title>By: lisa lisa</title>
		<link>http://www.pr-squared.com/index.php/2007/11/the_scandal_that_will_knock_ma/comment-page-2#comment-1101</link>
		<dc:creator>lisa lisa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Nov 2007 22:09:30 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Todd-

That example from the proposal is so scary. Thanks for sharing...

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Todd-</p>
<p>That example from the proposal is so scary. Thanks for sharing&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Greg Smith</title>
		<link>http://www.pr-squared.com/index.php/2007/11/the_scandal_that_will_knock_ma/comment-page-2#comment-1100</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Nov 2007 01:24:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pr-squared.com/pr2wp/?p=432#comment-1100</guid>
		<description>All Australian universities that teach PR include lectures and tutorials in ethics. I would assume they do in the US and UK. It&#039;s only when the students leave are they &quot;corrupted&quot; by business.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All Australian universities that teach PR include lectures and tutorials in ethics. I would assume they do in the US and UK. It&#8217;s only when the students leave are they &#8220;corrupted&#8221; by business.</p>
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		<title>By: Jess Kutch</title>
		<link>http://www.pr-squared.com/index.php/2007/11/the_scandal_that_will_knock_ma/comment-page-2#comment-1099</link>
		<dc:creator>Jess Kutch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Nov 2007 14:01:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pr-squared.com/pr2wp/?p=432#comment-1099</guid>
		<description>Marketers don&#039;t realize it now, but this kind of behavior will wreck the whole enterprise. Cynical (and unethical) tactics will undermine user trust in social media, and ultimately dilute the effectiveness of brand chatter on the web. Cynical marketing = cynical customers.

It also has the unintended consequence of screwing it up for everyone else! When customers find out they&#039;ve been duped, they&#039;re less likely to trust future WOM or viral marketing.

Great post, Todd!
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Marketers don&#8217;t realize it now, but this kind of behavior will wreck the whole enterprise. Cynical (and unethical) tactics will undermine user trust in social media, and ultimately dilute the effectiveness of brand chatter on the web. Cynical marketing = cynical customers.</p>
<p>It also has the unintended consequence of screwing it up for everyone else! When customers find out they&#8217;ve been duped, they&#8217;re less likely to trust future WOM or viral marketing.</p>
<p>Great post, Todd!</p>
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		<title>By: Lewis Webb</title>
		<link>http://www.pr-squared.com/index.php/2007/11/the_scandal_that_will_knock_ma/comment-page-2#comment-1098</link>
		<dc:creator>Lewis Webb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Nov 2007 11:17:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pr-squared.com/pr2wp/?p=432#comment-1098</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not sure what the status is in the US, but you might have seen this story about the EU laying down the law on astroturfing.

&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/11/03/eu_flogging_ban/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/11/03/eu_flogging_ban/&lt;/a&gt;

Hopefully this will be something that is a step towards keeping brands and marketers playing by the book.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not sure what the status is in the US, but you might have seen this story about the EU laying down the law on astroturfing.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/11/03/eu_flogging_ban/" rel="nofollow">http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/11/03/eu_flogging_ban/</a></p>
<p>Hopefully this will be something that is a step towards keeping brands and marketers playing by the book.</p>
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		<title>By: Tonja Deegan</title>
		<link>http://www.pr-squared.com/index.php/2007/11/the_scandal_that_will_knock_ma/comment-page-2#comment-1097</link>
		<dc:creator>Tonja Deegan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Nov 2007 19:51:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pr-squared.com/pr2wp/?p=432#comment-1097</guid>
		<description>These &quot;guerilla&quot; and SEO marketing agencies are spreading like a bad virus. I&#039;ve recently seen two similar proposals and counseled clients against them. Another gem is that they promise to &quot;look for paid opportunities from bloggers.&quot; This is only going to become more frequent. The role of PR is to counsel clients on the right and ethical way to engage with their online audiences.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>These &#8220;guerilla&#8221; and SEO marketing agencies are spreading like a bad virus. I&#8217;ve recently seen two similar proposals and counseled clients against them. Another gem is that they promise to &#8220;look for paid opportunities from bloggers.&#8221; This is only going to become more frequent. The role of PR is to counsel clients on the right and ethical way to engage with their online audiences.</p>
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		<title>By: Doug Haslam</title>
		<link>http://www.pr-squared.com/index.php/2007/11/the_scandal_that_will_knock_ma/comment-page-2#comment-1096</link>
		<dc:creator>Doug Haslam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Nov 2007 15:30:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pr-squared.com/pr2wp/?p=432#comment-1096</guid>
		<description>Todd,

Thanks for the link! The post is exactly as you say, and I agree completely with how you framed that corner of the issue.

For heaven&#039;s sake, a lot of us in PR are blogging (etc.), and people know who we are-- or could. Our relationships with our clients should not sully a good message, nor should it dress up a poor one. It helps if you believe in the message, of course .

Now I will go scrub my eyeballs after reading that &quot;guerilla marketing&quot; proposal in your post.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Todd,</p>
<p>Thanks for the link! The post is exactly as you say, and I agree completely with how you framed that corner of the issue.</p>
<p>For heaven&#8217;s sake, a lot of us in PR are blogging (etc.), and people know who we are&#8211; or could. Our relationships with our clients should not sully a good message, nor should it dress up a poor one. It helps if you believe in the message, of course .</p>
<p>Now I will go scrub my eyeballs after reading that &#8220;guerilla marketing&#8221; proposal in your post.</p>
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		<title>By: Sarah Wurrey</title>
		<link>http://www.pr-squared.com/index.php/2007/11/the_scandal_that_will_knock_ma/comment-page-2#comment-1095</link>
		<dc:creator>Sarah Wurrey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Nov 2007 15:03:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pr-squared.com/pr2wp/?p=432#comment-1095</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve got to agree with Albert&#039;s &quot;Shocked!&quot; point...I wasn&#039;t really surprised at all to read that in a proposal. Not to sound cynical, but I think a lot of what has gone on &quot;behind the scenes&quot; in this business in the past hasn&#039;t always been a pristine beacon of &quot;truthiness,&quot; and we still have a ways to go before everyone starts to grasp the concept that transparency is now a must. And you&#039;re right, it&#039;s not just PR, I think it&#039;s probably true of any number of communications fields; marketing, public affairs, government relations...

Perhaps the silver lining is that marketers are including social media in their proposals at all, even if they are getting it all wrong. :)
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve got to agree with Albert&#8217;s &#8220;Shocked!&#8221; point&#8230;I wasn&#8217;t really surprised at all to read that in a proposal. Not to sound cynical, but I think a lot of what has gone on &#8220;behind the scenes&#8221; in this business in the past hasn&#8217;t always been a pristine beacon of &#8220;truthiness,&#8221; and we still have a ways to go before everyone starts to grasp the concept that transparency is now a must. And you&#8217;re right, it&#8217;s not just PR, I think it&#8217;s probably true of any number of communications fields; marketing, public affairs, government relations&#8230;</p>
<p>Perhaps the silver lining is that marketers are including social media in their proposals at all, even if they are getting it all wrong. <img src='http://www.pr-squared.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Todd Defren</title>
		<link>http://www.pr-squared.com/index.php/2007/11/the_scandal_that_will_knock_ma/comment-page-2#comment-1094</link>
		<dc:creator>Todd Defren</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Nov 2007 14:25:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pr-squared.com/pr2wp/?p=432#comment-1094</guid>
		<description>Albert - First off, that line was easy; it&#039;s from Casablanca, one of my fave movies (and written by a Bard College alum!)  You can keep the Subway gift card, though. I brought my lunch today. ;)

Also, more to the point, thanks for the thoughtful comments.  This line in particular is brilliant: Social Media is a people place not a marketplace.

John - I didn&#039;t see the PRN post.  I am still against ghostblogging, though it may be inevitable.  Sad to say.

Csalmonlee - I think it is ok, within reason, for a PR person to respond in blog comments on behalf of clients, AS LONG AS they clearly define who they are and their role: that way the community gets to decide how much weight to put behind their words (if any).

More often than not, I suggest that the PR person&#039;s contribution ought to be along the lines of:

&quot;Hi, my name is _________, I am a PR consultant to (Company).  Just wanted you to know we&#039;ve seen this post, and will be discussing it with our friends at (Company).  Will be sure to let you know what comes of that, and/or hopefully I can get them to jump into the conversation themselves.  Stay tuned!&quot;

Doug Haslam at TechPRGems has a good post along these lines: &lt;a href=&quot;http://topazpartners.blogspot.com/2007/10/should-pr-agency-rep-leave-blog.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://topazpartners.blogspot.com/2007/10/should-pr-agency-rep-leave-blog.html&lt;/a&gt;

Thanks, all.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Albert &#8211; First off, that line was easy; it&#8217;s from Casablanca, one of my fave movies (and written by a Bard College alum!)  You can keep the Subway gift card, though. I brought my lunch today. <img src='http://www.pr-squared.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Also, more to the point, thanks for the thoughtful comments.  This line in particular is brilliant: Social Media is a people place not a marketplace.</p>
<p>John &#8211; I didn&#8217;t see the PRN post.  I am still against ghostblogging, though it may be inevitable.  Sad to say.</p>
<p>Csalmonlee &#8211; I think it is ok, within reason, for a PR person to respond in blog comments on behalf of clients, AS LONG AS they clearly define who they are and their role: that way the community gets to decide how much weight to put behind their words (if any).</p>
<p>More often than not, I suggest that the PR person&#8217;s contribution ought to be along the lines of:</p>
<p>&#8220;Hi, my name is _________, I am a PR consultant to (Company).  Just wanted you to know we&#8217;ve seen this post, and will be discussing it with our friends at (Company).  Will be sure to let you know what comes of that, and/or hopefully I can get them to jump into the conversation themselves.  Stay tuned!&#8221;</p>
<p>Doug Haslam at TechPRGems has a good post along these lines: <a href="http://topazpartners.blogspot.com/2007/10/should-pr-agency-rep-leave-blog.html" rel="nofollow">http://topazpartners.blogspot.com/2007/10/should-pr-agency-rep-leave-blog.html</a></p>
<p>Thanks, all.</p>
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		<title>By: Albert Maruggi</title>
		<link>http://www.pr-squared.com/index.php/2007/11/the_scandal_that_will_knock_ma/comment-page-1#comment-3149</link>
		<dc:creator>Albert Maruggi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Nov 2007 04:12:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pr-squared.com/pr2wp/?p=432#comment-3149</guid>
		<description>TD – this is classic it reminds me of the line “I’m shocked, shocked to find gambling going on in here,”  the first person to post the name of that movie will get a $10 Subway card.

Background

You raise a wonderful topic – trust.  You didn’t think it was going to be that heavy, but the fact is, that’s what we have here.

Technology is once again racing ahead of the rationale to apply it well.

This time, unlike the 90s, it cuts to our very core as humans the need to be recognized as individuals and to be part of a larger group.  It also twists the knife into the Achilles heel of capitalism, which is competition and greed.


Points

1)	Social media believes in transparency,  honest discussion, and civility
2)	Financial markets rewards growth and meeting prescribed expectations. It usually penalizes the straight-forward discussion of events
3)	Media, as consumed by most Americans, benefits from conflict and in our sports oriented, entertainment dominated society there must be a victor and a loser. Also there must be a solution before the consumption of my next event.
4)	Political system benefits accusers over the accused which caters to the media (see number 3)
5)	Legal system has become an apparatus to paralyze innovation, and a source of revenue rather than a resort for justice
6)	Companies reward plans and predictive behavior.  They usually can’t handle an unknown or unpredictable.


All of these things run counter to the brilliance of social media.  Because social media, absent the consultants, gurus, et al addresses the need in humans to be connected

At its essence, social media is a movement.  It is a movement to repair the cynicism that has gripped our society.  It is a medium that allows for the voices in the middle to speak as loudly as those on the extreme,   It allows for the questions to be asked that are not intended to bait, deceive, or entrap, but to enlighten, educate, and advance the discussion.

Hey in the spirit of social media disclosure, I pay my mortgage and the salaries of employees by providing communications advice.  But I have to say, we are not dealing with some new kind of printing technique for direct mail or even some technology platform upon which to put your marketing stuff.

We are dealing with the interaction and relationship of people.  People who have sought each other out for a common purpose.  This is a people place not a market place.

Our competitive monetizing society wants answers now on how to use this technology to the advantage of its investors.   Society is still trying to figure out how it can use it to address its desire to be connected.



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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>TD – this is classic it reminds me of the line “I’m shocked, shocked to find gambling going on in here,”  the first person to post the name of that movie will get a $10 Subway card.</p>
<p>Background</p>
<p>You raise a wonderful topic – trust.  You didn’t think it was going to be that heavy, but the fact is, that’s what we have here.</p>
<p>Technology is once again racing ahead of the rationale to apply it well.</p>
<p>This time, unlike the 90s, it cuts to our very core as humans the need to be recognized as individuals and to be part of a larger group.  It also twists the knife into the Achilles heel of capitalism, which is competition and greed.</p>
<p>Points</p>
<p>1)	Social media believes in transparency,  honest discussion, and civility<br />
2)	Financial markets rewards growth and meeting prescribed expectations. It usually penalizes the straight-forward discussion of events<br />
3)	Media, as consumed by most Americans, benefits from conflict and in our sports oriented, entertainment dominated society there must be a victor and a loser. Also there must be a solution before the consumption of my next event.<br />
4)	Political system benefits accusers over the accused which caters to the media (see number 3)<br />
5)	Legal system has become an apparatus to paralyze innovation, and a source of revenue rather than a resort for justice<br />
6)	Companies reward plans and predictive behavior.  They usually can’t handle an unknown or unpredictable.</p>
<p>All of these things run counter to the brilliance of social media.  Because social media, absent the consultants, gurus, et al addresses the need in humans to be connected</p>
<p>At its essence, social media is a movement.  It is a movement to repair the cynicism that has gripped our society.  It is a medium that allows for the voices in the middle to speak as loudly as those on the extreme,   It allows for the questions to be asked that are not intended to bait, deceive, or entrap, but to enlighten, educate, and advance the discussion.</p>
<p>Hey in the spirit of social media disclosure, I pay my mortgage and the salaries of employees by providing communications advice.  But I have to say, we are not dealing with some new kind of printing technique for direct mail or even some technology platform upon which to put your marketing stuff.</p>
<p>We are dealing with the interaction and relationship of people.  People who have sought each other out for a common purpose.  This is a people place not a market place.</p>
<p>Our competitive monetizing society wants answers now on how to use this technology to the advantage of its investors.   Society is still trying to figure out how it can use it to address its desire to be connected.</p>
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		<title>By: John Cass</title>
		<link>http://www.pr-squared.com/index.php/2007/11/the_scandal_that_will_knock_ma/comment-page-1#comment-1093</link>
		<dc:creator>John Cass</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Nov 2007 03:57:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pr-squared.com/pr2wp/?p=432#comment-1093</guid>
		<description>Great post Todd.

Did you see the PR Newswire request for thoughts on why it is now okay to ghost blog? Are we going backwards or forwards?

I think the community and associations need to call out the agencies and people who participate in these sort of inappropriate behaviors.

@Mike

Regarding your point about what do they teach in schools. I think I would not worry too much about that. Though keeping students up to date is a goal to pursue. I&#039;d worry more about experienced communications professional leading junior professionals down the wrong path. That&#039;s why if something does blog up it&#039;s important for all the community to comment on it. As the community can act as a counter weight to poor leadership.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great post Todd.</p>
<p>Did you see the PR Newswire request for thoughts on why it is now okay to ghost blog? Are we going backwards or forwards?</p>
<p>I think the community and associations need to call out the agencies and people who participate in these sort of inappropriate behaviors.</p>
<p>@Mike</p>
<p>Regarding your point about what do they teach in schools. I think I would not worry too much about that. Though keeping students up to date is a goal to pursue. I&#8217;d worry more about experienced communications professional leading junior professionals down the wrong path. That&#8217;s why if something does blog up it&#8217;s important for all the community to comment on it. As the community can act as a counter weight to poor leadership.</p>
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